Episode 108: Caroline's Cart with Drew Ann Long

Disclaimer: Unedited AI Transcript

Larry (00:07):

You are listening to specifically for Seniors, a podcast designed for a vibrant and diverse senior community. I'm your host, Dr. Larry Barsh. Join me in a lineup of experts as we discuss a wide variety of topics that will empower, inform, entertain, and inspire as we celebrate the richness and wisdom of this incredible stage of life.

Larry (00:39):

Today, we explore the civic power of everyday objects and the people who dare to redesign them. Today's guest didn't start with a blueprint. She started with a daughter, drew Ann Long is the creator of Carolyn's Cart, a revolutionary shopping cart designed for children and adults with disabilities named after her daughter Carolyn, who was born with RET syndrome. The cart began as a mother's plea for inclusion and became a national movement in retail design. Drew taught herself the language of industrial engineering founded parent solution group in 2008, and partnered with Technibilt to bring her vision to life. Her invention has since earned national recognition, including the Da Vinci Award for Universal Design, and is now available in major retailers like Target, Kroger, and Walmart. But this story isn't just about a cart, it's about civic imagination, maternal resolve, and the quiet revolution of making space for everyone. Drew, welcome to specifically for seniors.

Drew Ann Long (02:12):

Thank you. I'm excited to be here and, and continue to advocate for what I do. Thanks again.

Larry (02:20):

Let me ask you to start off with what is RET syndrome?

Drew Ann Long (02:25):

RET Syndrome is a genetic disorder. It is completely random. I have three children, two are typical, one is disabled. My daughter Caroline you know, I'm not a carrier. My husband's not a carrier. It's just a random genetic mutation that can happen to anyone, just anyone. And it, it, it just happened to us.

Larry (02:51):

And what, what problems does it present in your everyday life?

Drew Ann Long (02:57):

So, there's a range of RET syndrome. But for Caroline, she doesn't walk. She doesn't talk. She's tube fed. She wears a diaper. But she's a happy adult now. You know, she goes to date programs she can interact and smile, and she is well aware of what's going on around her. And, you know, some RET girls are higher functioning, some RET girls are lower functioning. So it's, it's a range, you know, of, of it's, it's a spectrum of, of where you are on it. And, you know, Caroline's on the lower end of that spectrum.

Larry (03:38):

And what, what was your life like?

Drew Ann Long (03:45):

Oh, it was, it was tough. I mean, you know, no one, no one wants a severely disabled child. No one. That's not what anybody, that's, that's not your hopes and dreams for any of your children. So Caroline is my second child. And you know, life got hard, significantly harder. You know, I, I found myself thrust into a world that, number one, I didn't wanna be in number two, a world I knew nothing about a world that would try me, challenge me, test me, but more importantly, it was a world that I was gonna try to make a difference in, not only for my daughter Caroline, but for others as well.

Larry (04:27):

And one of your daily problems was able to go shopping,

Drew Ann Long (04:32):

Right? So when she was younger, again, never walked I could use what stores provided, but as Caroline got older, she outgrew all the options. You know, you've probably seen the fun carts. I, they're like, race cars or fire trucks, and the toddlers love them. I love them. All my kids love them. But when, when Caroline outgrew that around eight years old I went to my store manager and I said, you know, I just live in small town Alabama. Could, is there a special needs shopping carts? There probably is. And he agreed. And I said, would you buy it since I'm in here so much? And he said, absolutely. So a week later we circled back and he said, there is no special needs shopping cart. And I was just stunned that there was such a variety out there for different populations.

Drew Ann Long (05:28):

Different, different, different age groups, all the things, electric scooters, fun carts, stu some stores even provide wheelchairs. But what about those that can't use any of those options? And it was just a huge, huge gap in the retail world of shopping. And, you know, a lot of people don't know that the disabled special needs community is in fact the world's largest minority group, really. And we are often overlooked and usually underserved. So yeah, that, that's what I discovered. I, I, I really, of course, I'm not the only one that needed a special needs shopping cart. I knew that it would be a worldwide global need, and was really shocked to see that it had never been tapped into.

Larry (06:19):

So, out of necessity you had to do something?

Drew Ann Long (06:23):

Absolutely. sure, sure. Outta my, out of a, out of, out of a need for my own child. Yes.

Larry (06:29):

And you had no background in engineering or design, and you came up, well, let's show a picture of the cart you came up with. We'll talk about it.

Drew Ann Long (06:44):

There it is. Yeah.

Larry (06:47):

Tell us about it.

Drew Ann Long (06:48):

Well, so simple. You know I didn't invent, I did not invent the shopping cart. Of course, I consider myself an innovator. I took a product that existed and made a few minor modifications. And there, there it is. You know, it has a larger seat to hold up to 250 pounds. It still has the bottom rack for product. The, the rack comes out for the person that's sitting in it for their feet to have a place to rest. It's got brakes on it. It, it, it has six wheels. Shopping carts only have four wheels, but because of the design and holding a larger person, the actual addition of two wheels, no matter how much weight you have in that cart, it just turns on a dime. It's just very easy to maneuver. So it, it, it wasn't rocket science. It was a simple modification that would include the world's largest minority group.

Larry (08:00):

You call it a simple modification, but there was a lot of engineering. Oh, it was harnesses, handles, weight distribution.

Drew Ann Long (08:09):

Right. I don't want, yeah, I, I say simple, but it was, it was very difficult to get off the ground. It cost a lot of money. I had a lot of failures. The, the, you know, I took my design to the four shopping cart manufacturers in the United States. There's four of them. And all four of them told me, no, there wasn't a need. So it, it, it was v you know, it took years to get it off the ground. And I was very naive. I thought that it would be simple. I thought that I would take this design, which, which I had on a napkin, and then on a piece of paper. And I thought that, that corporate America would just be like, oh, yes, yes. And it was the exact opposite. I mean, it was no, no, no. From the get go. So I was, you know, I was left with a decision. I was either going to plow through and try to do it, or I had to shut up about it, you know, because I, nobody was gonna do it. I went to the big dogs, nobody was gonna do it, so it was me, or it wasn't gonna happen.

Larry (09:16):

So you faced the problems of an innovator,

Drew Ann Long (09:21):

100% <laugh>.

Larry (09:24):

And you mentioned that there were several steps to innovation that you learned several, right?

Drew Ann Long (09:30):

Sure. You know, just, you know, I had it in my head. I drew it on a napkin for my husband at dinner one night, and I was like, all right, now I gotta get it to a piece of paper, then what do I do? So, you know, I did have to involve, involve engineers, and I did have to get prototypes and patents, and I had to, you know, have something to test and bring to the consumer and bring to social media. So it, it was, it was a lot of steps of innovation. Absolutely. And a lot of people involved.

Larry (10:06):

So it took years to get a, even a prototype developed.

Drew Ann Long (10:10):

It did for me. And a lot of people are like, well, why, why did it take so long? Well, for one, I was the mother, first of three young kids, one severely disabled in and out of the hospital. My husband traveled for a living, you know, so he was out working and paying the bills. So I didn't have the luxury of going to an office, you know, that's why I went to corporate America and asked them to do this. I knew that I did not have the time, the money. So it, yeah, it did. It had to be, it had to come second, of course, to my family, to me, taking care of my kids. So I did it. I worked on it when I could. And that, that's what slowed me down, of course.

Larry (10:52):

And how did you finance this whole thing?

Drew Ann Long (10:55):

Oh my goodness. Well, we drained our savings, and that didn't take long. And we came to a point where we were completely out of money. We were in debt so bad because we just were paying for patents. So we, we were, it, it was either gonna die or we had to go to our 401k and I didn't wanna go to my, our retirement, because that's not smart. Anybody, any financial advisor will say, you, you know, don't do it. But it was, we were so, we were so into this. We, you know, we had, we had gone to social media. People were counting on this. They wanted it. I believed in it. And we were so financially in debt that I'm like, this, this, this has got to succeed. Or, I mean, I, I, I mean, I, I, I'm scared. What would've happened if it didn't? So it was, was it was the ultimate risk that we were willing to take.

Larry (11:58):

So now I assume you have a prototype that you can show to retailers

Drew Ann Long (12:05):

Right? At that point? Yeah, at that point. So, you know, it took me a couple years. I, I got a prototype. The first prototype was $28,000. So I had to get like four or five prototypes. That was just the first one, if that gives you any idea. But you have to have that too, to demo, to, to take video, to take pictures to put out on social media. So all that is just part of the process. So once I got some prototypes and got, you know, was gaining momentum, gaining interest, I needed a manufacturer. And all the manufacturers had, had, had told me no. So I had to go the non-traditional route. And I found a manufacturer in Georgia, and he had never made a shopping cart, but he was able, he said, I think I can make some of these. And he made me 100 carts for $100,000.

Drew Ann Long (13:04):

So, you know, the bills just continued to increase. You know, I didn't make money on this for probably seven, eight years. Never made a dime. Just kept writing checks. Kept writing checks, you know. And once I had my first sellable carts, I went to all the big stores, and none of them would buy it. They weren't interested because they would own, there's, they only buy from like one main manufacturer. And that manufacturer had told me no. So here I had, was it, you know, used up our retirement still in debt, had a hundred carts that nobody would buy. So I had to take, I had to go to the smaller chains. I call 'em the mom and pop stores. I had to go to the ones that were locally owned. So that's what I did. You know, my husband and I kind of mapped out across the US locally owned stores that would take a chance.

Drew Ann Long (14:04):

We, you know, I, I live in Alabama. I didn't want them all in Alabama. I needed a na, I needed a grassroots nationwide effort. I needed to build the demand nationally, not just in Alabama. So we were able to seed the market with these carts in locally owned, no one's ever heard of, you know, the mom and pop stores. And if it wasn't for them, I wouldn't have made it. So after that happened, because of social media, you know, the, the tides started to turn and word was getting out, and people were sharing and posting and saying, well, I need my Walmart to have this. I need target to have this. So after about a year of, of the, of, of, of my first round being in the smaller stores the manufacturer in North Carolina called me and said, okay, we now you created, we, we believe in it now. And you created enough demand, come back, because now we have some of our big customers wanting Caroline's cart. So it was my third trip up there that I finally got a yes, and they started to manufacture it.

Larry (15:19):

And who became your largest retailer?

Drew Ann Long (15:23):

Walmart. So last year I had the opportunity to go to Bentonville, Arkansas, and Walmart did a nationwide rollout. So every single Walmart and every single Walmart neighborhood market, I don't know if you have those. So there's like the super centers, and then they have the smaller stores. Every single one of them in the United States has, has Caroline's car.

Larry (15:48):

Hmm. That's an incredible story.

Drew Ann Long (15:53):

Yeah. It, I, I thank you and I appreciate that. And, you know, it was, it was so much hard work. I could not have done it without the special needs families backing me and wanting it and, and, and going to their store in Ohio, in Michigan, in California, and asking for it, you know, I'm just one voice. Just one voice. So without the world's largest minority group getting behind this and literally demanding it, it never would've happened. You know? It, it, so many things had to fall into place. I mean, the stars had to align. Yes, it was my idea, yes, it was my money. But it, it, it was, it was it takes a village. You know, you've heard that saying it takes a village, and that is definitely the case with Caroline's cart. Never would've happened without the nationwide demand coming from special needs families.

Larry (16:53):

But the persistence and risk that you personally took Yeah. That, with this project, that

Drew Ann Long (17:00):

Was tough. That was tough. You know, and I, I was so naive in the beginning that I honestly thought it would be simple. I thought, okay, I'll just point out this problem. And the, you know, yes, everybody will do it. And look, and that wasn't, it, it, it, it was a no at every turn. But the people that told me, no, they don't live in my world. They don't, they were quick to shut out that this is a global need. You know, they just wouldn't listen. So I'm glad that I was naive because had I had, I had a crystal ball and seen how hard this would've been, I would've never done it. You know, nobody would've done it. Nobody would've risked what, what my husband and I risked to do it. You know? It was, it was ma It was, it was absurd. And, and it should have never been that hard. But you know, it, it, I I'm certainly glad that I, that it happened. And Caroline's card is now international. It's, it's, it's now it's in Dubai, you know, so if you ever go to Dubai in the Middle East, you'll see Caroline's cart. You know, it is, it is wildly successful because of the families that helped me create this demand.

Larry (18:19):

And it's not just kids.

Drew Ann Long (18:21):

Oh, absolutely not. You know, Caroline's cart is for the older child slash adult. My Caroline is, Caroline's birthday was yesterday, she's 25. So special needs kids grow up to be special needs adults. So that's the main user. If you're, if you're a kid, if you're small, you can probably still use, you know, the fun cards. So yeah, I, I get emails all the time from parents that have older autistic kids that are like, we can't shop without it. Our kid walks just fine. You know, he's 22, he's a grown man, but he has autism and he's a runner, and he gets overstimulated, but he loves to go to the store and pick out his cereal, but we can't. He has to be in Caroline's cart in the harness. That's the only way we can shop. So it, it is, it is very rewarding to hear stories like that.

Larry (19:23):

And I read one of the stories from an Adam Standerford.

Drew Ann Long (19:28):

Oh yes. Uhhuh <affirmative>.

Larry (19:31):

Do you wanna Yes. Tell us the story.

Drew Ann Long (19:32):

So I don't, I've never met him, but wow. What a, what a great family, a advocate he was for the cart. And he was very instrumental in helping to lead and create the demand in his area to help get Carolyn's cart in all the stores. Absolutely.

Larry (19:56):

What, what's the need out there for more, I'll call 'em, specialty products in the world of disability management?

Drew Ann Long (20:07):

Well, I think the need is tremendous. And again, it is here we are the world's largest minority group in every community globally. And we're the most underserved. You know, you put special needs in front of anything that is currently being made. The price goes up tenfold. I recently bought my daughter a chair that she needs to sit in just a chair that on rollers, it's $3,000. You know, it is absurd what families like mine have to do to get what we need for our children. And that's, that's young children all the way through adult children. So, you know, we, we fight for what we need, and there's a lot out there, you know, but the things that are out there are often just overpriced. And it's, we shouldn't have to pay more just because our child has a disability,

Larry (21:14):

Especially if the disability minority group is the largest minority. It's not limited production.

Drew Ann Long (21:25):

Oh, absolutely not. It is not. It is, you know, and again, it's not, it's not the United States largest minority group. It is the world's largest minority group. And, you know, anybody is a day away from joining this group. You know, we could all be disabled at any time. It's something does need to change. And I, you know, in, in the 25 years that I've been a member of this group, I have seen major, major improvements. So I think we're moving in the right direction, but it is something that needs to be on the forefront of, of, of corporate America's mind, for

Larry (22:04):

Sure. What advice would you give to someone who sees a gap in their community and wants to fill it, but doesn't really know where to start?

Drew Ann Long (22:16):

You know, just do your homework. Do your research, know what you want. Know that it's gonna not be easy. It's gonna be hard. You know, I say that what I did took longer than I thought was harder than I thought and cost more money than I ever thought. So, be prepared to be in it for the long haul. You know, be committed to what you wanna do. Build a, build a community of support that, that might be the most important. I, again, if without the community of support I had, Caroline's cart would not exist. So make sure that you have a strong foundation and a great support support system behind you.

Larry (23:01):

We're gonna have listeners who live in locations where their markets don't have Carolyn's cart. How do they get started?

Drew Ann Long (23:13):

Okay, so they can email me or they can go to our website, which is caroline's cart.com. You can print a store request form and you just print it out and you take it to the store manager, and the store manager has all the information they need to order it. So carolines cart.com.

Larry (23:39):

One other thing, you started a foundation, Carolyn's, cause tell us about it.

Drew Ann Long (23:46):

So in, in an effort to give back to this special needs community that helped us get the card off the ground, we started a nonprofit called Caroline's Cause. And it's designed for families like mine where you have typical children as well as a special needs child. And we wanna help a typical child. This is a college scholarship for the typical child, not the special needs child, the typical child. And when you're a, when you're a senior in high school, you can apply and to qualify, you must have a special needs sibling. And we want to recognize and support that family. It is hard to raise a child with a disability. It's very rewarding. We love her no less. We adore her. My, her siblings adore her. But there's challenges. There are challenges. And my husband and I have watched our, our other kids take a back seat to Caroline.

Drew Ann Long (24:45):

You know, we wanna do this. Well, Caroline can't do that. We wanna go here. Well, Caroline can't do that. And we wanna just say, Hey, sibling, we see you and we want to support you. And Caroline's cause has really taken off. We award a one time $5,000 scholarship to, you know, it is it's need-based. But we've, we, it, it, it's grown so much that we can't fund them all. And it is heartbreaking when you cannot fund a scholarship to someone who is so needing, needing it. So again, my, it's Caroline's cause.com. We take Venmo, we are looking for corporate sponsors. A corporate sponsorship is $5,000. And you know, that's not a lot of money for our big company to give $5,000. And for our corporate sponsorship, we put you on our website and we recognize you and we give you all the props.

Drew Ann Long (25:43):

So you know, if anybody that is looking Caroline's cause.com, I do not take a salary, know where your money's going. A lot of people give to nonprofits and very little goes to what you think it goes to because it goes to overhead, it goes to all the, and I don't have that. So I do a lot of speaking. I get, I, I travel and I speak and if someone hires me to speak they can pay my nonprofit because this is a tax deduction. So whoever hires me can get a tax benefit for having me come speak and their fee goes to scholarships.

Larry (26:27):

Any closing comments? Anything we left out that you'd like to talk about?

Drew Ann Long (26:32):

Well, I just appreciate people like you giving me a voice, allowing me to continue to advocate for not only the cart, but for Caroline's cause as well. So thank you for what you do and getting my story out there, and I hope your listeners will if their store does not have it, whether they need it or not, someone does need it. So I challenge anyone out there that is listening, if, if they don't see it in their store, go ahead and request it because you know, you special needs families. If you can't, if they don't have it, you're not gonna see them in the store. Maybe they're just waiting for someone to just make that move for them and help them get the card. The more that ask for it, the better chance that the store will get it.

Larry (27:17):

And again, the websites.

Drew Ann Long (27:20):

Okay. The website is carolines cart.com. That will, there is a, there's a tab on there where you can print a cart request form and you just hand it to your store manager. And then Caroline's cause.com is the scholarship nonprofit website.

Larry (27:40):

So people that don't have a, a disabled child or an adult in the family, if they don't see a cart in the store that they use for shopping, you recommend submit a request anyhow.

Drew Ann Long (27:58):

Yes. And I would say most stores will get it. You know, Caroline's cart is, we're just, we we're everywhere. We are very well known. And every corporate, oh, every corporate headquarters has approved it for purchase. So I'll just give an example. Publix, if you, if you shop at Publix and you're, you know, we're, we're in, we're in many, many, we're in hundreds of Publix. But if yours happens not to have it, if you'll request it, that store manager will get it.

Larry (28:29):

I'm glad you mentioned that because I'm in Massachusetts. The two supermarkets that I use, I've never seen like, what are they, disabled card? What are they? Shaw's Stop and shop in the Boston area.

Drew Ann Long (28:47):

Alright. We are in a bunch of stop and shops, so we just might not be in yours, but I know we are in many Shaws. I think we're in a few Shaws as well. I don't think we are in all of them, but I would be, I would really be surprised if if Stop and Shop did not get one. 'cause I know we're in so many of theirs,

Larry (29:08):

I just haven't seen them. So

Drew Ann Long (29:10):

See, now I can challenge you to go request it there.

Larry (29:14):

So I've got some work to do. There

Drew Ann Long (29:16):

You go. I'll give you a little homework. <Laugh> for the weekend. A little weekend homework.

Larry (29:20):

Drew, it's been a pleasure talking to you. I'm glad we had an opportunity to let you talk about. Thank you. This was wonderful. Yes. Disabled community.

Drew Ann Long (29:31):

This was wonderful. I appreciate it. I, I, I'm excited for this to come out and share it on all my channels

Larry (29:37):

And we'll let you know when the podcast drops.

Drew Ann Long (29:40):

Okay. Thank you again. Thanks again, drew. Ah, bye-bye.

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