Dancing with the Muse in Old Age with Priscilla Long

Disclaimer: Unedited AI transcript

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 We've discussed the problem of ageism several times on this podcast, but we wanted to confront ageism head on and try to figure out how we ourselves could do something about the way ageism affects our own individual lives. So we invited Priscilla Long author of the book, dancing with the Muse in Old Age to the podcast to ask her what we each and every one of us can do to thrive as we age and challenge the views about old age that can affect us negatively. Priscilla is a Seattle based writer of science, poetry, creative nonfiction, fiction and history, and a longtime independent teacher of writing Her awards include a national magazine award, and 10 of her essays have been honored as notable in various editions of Best American essays. She also wrote a science column for the American Scholar online. Priscilla has an m f A from the University of Washington, and she wants you all to know that she grew up on a dairy farm on the eastern shore of Maryland. Welcome to specifically for Seniors, Priscilla.

Priscilla Long (02:48):

Thank you. It's great to be here, Larry.

Larry (02:52):

Let's, let's talk a little bit about the book at the start. What's the book about and what do you want us to get out of it?

Priscilla Long (03:01):

Well, it is a book about thriving in old age, really, and I wrote it because I, well, as I was writing it, it took me about four years to do all the research in the writing. I was about to turn 80, now I am 80 <laugh>. I did it, I turned 80, and I wanted us all to, if we understand some of the science, so the science about aging, some of it is quite new. Some of it we know, we know we have to move more <laugh> but but some of it is, is quite new. So it's it lays out the science and it has hundreds of models of which I felt I need, I need models to go into this new era of my life. I need models who are dynamic, creative, engaged with their communities engaged with some kind of work.

Priscilla Long (04:05):

And since I'm in the arts, most, most of the models, but not all are in the arts. So and also as we know, our attitudes toward age, toward our own aging and toward other old people have a profound effect on our own wellbeing. Just a profe. In fact, of course, we, you know about, and we all know about Becca Levy's work, and that ages internalized ageism and ageism even the ageism of young people have takes seven years off your life, period. And that's not even, I'm sure the worst of it because it's quality of life also. So so the, I wanted the book to have the science to have many, many models in their stories. And also at the end of each chapter there's a section called Composing Our Lives, which is, of course taken from Mary Catherine Bateson has a book composing, I think it's called Composing a Life.

Priscilla Long (05:19):

And so composing our Lives. So there, there are questions that we can write on for 10 minutes, five minutes, 10 minutes that sort of to, as a self-examination of how are we doing, you know, in terms of, you know, whatever, connecting with people in terms terms of moving more, can we move 5%? No, no crash diets here. But could we do you know, could we find a passion or do we have a passion that we could pursue? And by passion, people think you have to feel passionate all the time. So no <laugh>, but it's about going, having a work and going back to it every day. 

Larry (06:14):

What what inspired you to write Dancing With the Muse?

Priscilla Long (06:19):

Well, it was the fact that I was turning 80, which to me was shocking. Why was it shocking? <Laugh>? Because many of us are turning 80. I think 'cause of the ageism that we all grew up with that, I mean, I think the oldest I've ever felt is 40 <laugh> when I thought, oh, now life is over <laugh>. It's like, I know everything now and <laugh>. So so I, I just felt the need to be conscious and aware of what was coming. And I have to say that and so these, the mo the many models like Wayne Tebo, Tebow, the Painter starting a new body of work at the age of 98, his clown, that's the kind of model I need. Thank you, <laugh>. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, and, and, and, and people like the photographer Imogene Cunningham, who who worked up till the last week of her life in her nineties this fabulous art photographer. And many of the, and there are many more models I had. There's so I found so many, it's not like, oh, this is very rare. No, this is very common, I found, so I have a huge file of of spectacular elders who didn't make it into the book. So, and I keep find they keep coming up. So, so and many of them are actually much older than I am,

Larry (07:53):

I want to talk more about the models later on. Okay. But what, what is your personal take on the negativity associated with old age?

Priscilla Long (08:09):

It's, it's a terrible thing. <Laugh>, I mean, it's very, very, very destructive personally, in turn. And actually, it's related to negativity about creativity. If, if you have ambitions, no matter how old you are, if you have ambitions to do something creative, I mean I think Mary Kay Ash, who was a some kind of entrepreneur said if you think you can, you can, if you think you can't, you are right. And so the the point is that with creativity and with aging, if you have a negative attitude, and they're all around us, as we know, they're all around us. And if you don't resist them, so basically, if you don't resist them, they're affecting us all. And you, you know, you think, oh, you get up and you think, oh, well, I'm too old for this. Or you think oh so since I'm this age, you know, I really can't do this anymore, or I wish I could.

Priscilla Long (09:28):

I've, I've heard these things. You know, these are not made up. I've heard them since I'm, you know since I'm 56. It's too late for me to learn how to write a novel. And, and things like that. And or like in my case, well, I've written seven, sorry, seven books. Yeah, seven. I've written seven. I've published seven books, and I've published a lot of other things. And I could say, oh, well, you know, that was pretty good. So now, now I can, you know, well, no. So my ambition is to write 10 more books. And I, I don't know if I'll succeed, but I, I feel that in terms of creative work and in terms of the way it's affected me a lot is I under, I'm not an, for example, I'm not an athletic person at all.

Priscilla Long (10:27):

I do not like sports. I don't enjoy sports, and I'm not athletic, and I can't see to catch a ball. And so but I walk my 10,000 steps every day because I have read the science. And so this, and I do my ways. And I've found that I can do it, and it's enjoyable, actually, but I found that I can do it and be, and partly because I have read the science just over and over and over again. And and it's like, we, we should do, do this, and I should do this. So this book has already very much helped me.

Larry (11:14):

There. There were a couple of sentences at the very beginning of the book that stuck with me. You said, old Age is a primetime to flourish in creative pri <laugh>. It's a old age is a good time to get your words straight. <Laugh> old age is a prime time to flourish in creative productivity. It is also a prime time to begin creative work. Yes. Tell me about that.

Priscilla Long (11:47):

Yes. of course, numbers of the models started late, very late. And I think our most famous example of that is Anna Mary Robertson, Moses, who used to be called Grandma <laugh>. I'm part of the campaign to start calling her by her name. But it's a prime time because in partly 'cause we, we know a lot, we have a lot of, even if we are going into something entirely new, we have, by this time, meta skills. We know how to work, we know that we know how to work through discouragement. 'cause There are always points where you think, oh, this is like, oh, I'm writing this memoir, but I'm stuck in the middle now and this is now a waste of time. No, we know that we're, that all memoir writers get stuck in the middle <laugh>. That's just the way it is.

Priscilla Long (12:49):

Or novel writers or poetry writers. So we have these skills. We might, we might, we probably have more time. Our, our you know, children, if we have children are probably out of the house and or if they're in the house, they're not, you know, babies anymore. So, and and so there's a kind of, if you choose, if one chooses to pursue a new a new work it is a prime time to do it. And, and if, if, like, if in the situation where someone has worked within a business or corporation or institution or, you know, hospital or a career and has decided, well, I mean, there's such a thing as not retiring. So that's one thing. And Daniel Leviton, who wrote that book, successful Aging, I think says the best thing to do is don't retire.

Priscilla Long (13:58):

But I don't entirely agree with that. I mean, and creative workers tend to not retire. I mean, I plan to never retire. But but other, you know, there's such a thing as saying, okay, enough is enough. I've done this now and now I wanna do something else. But you don't, you, you, you can retire to a new life of a new work. And so it is the prime time for that because you, we have advantages. Old people tend to be more stable emotionally. That's a great advantage in doing any kind of work. We tend actually, old people tend to be happier. It's, I don't know how well known that is a is as a fact, but it's very well studied. Old people and young people are much happier than middle aged people. I mean, there's a lot of stress in middle age and, and not so much time.

Priscilla Long (14:57):

Often old people have the advantage of having time to learn where and that's, this is Rachel Wu's work, the neuroscientist and her team that middle her, their idea or their studies, it's not just an idea, but their studies are that middle aged people. They at middle aged, we tend, we're very busy. We're very busy. We're paying off the mortgage, probably we're our children are teenagers. It's just enough to do like, thank you. I don't have time to learn the guitar right now. No. And and middle-aged people are very accomplished. And they're, they're very they might be fl fl hopefully flourishing in their trade, their job, their profession, their career. But they're not learning much new. They're going on past knowledge, past experience, and in older age, we now have the opportunity to really start again and to learn new things, really new things. So that's why it's a prime time for,

Larry (16:24):

So in your book, you talk about older people being happier, and you get into some actual examples of people who are happy in old age, like Imogen Cunningham and Twila Tharp, Jesse Spa. My dog is usually pretty good in the room, but <laugh> <laugh>, Jesse, Jesse, come here. Hold on just a second while I treat my dog. Yeah. Okay. Good boy. <Laugh> <laugh>. I might even leave that in. I dunno. <Laugh>, speaking of happiness I, you talk about Pablo Casals,

Priscilla Long (17:18):

Yeah. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, yeah. The way he played, well, was it Beethoven, I think every morning, and just like the joy of, and he was in his nineties, I believe. And, and, and the, just the joy of life that, that this amazing music exists. And yeah. And, and, and take Leonard Cohen, which is an interesting case because sometimes a person who's had a lot of depression, well, he, he, he was, had a lot of depression in his life. And and nothing worked. I mean, the medication didn't work, nothing worked. And at, at the age of whatever it was, 70 or something, it simply went away. And that was part of his, and he was, of course, extremely productive at the end of his life. And so, yeah, I mean, the chapter, the happiness of the old, I think is one of my favorite chapters.

Priscilla Long (18:26):

And, and the, just the the artists who find joy in the making that, like Wayne Tebow said something like that you know, you don't have to, who, who, you don't have to prove anything anymore. You just, it's, it's for your own development. It's for, and it doesn't mean we shouldn't put our work out there. I'm not saying that or network or do all that stuff, but it's about the making the, the, the pleasures and joy of making that you're just, it's about the development of the self and, and the making and the, the pressure to succeed that I think younger people feel, I mean, I, I feel, I still feel very ambitious, actually, myself. The anxiety of ambition has not departed from me. But <laugh>. But, but, but still, I mean, you've well, for, for someone who's not a beginner, I mean, you've ha you've accomplished a lot, and that's never gonna go away.

Priscilla Long (19:33):

That's always gonna be there. So there's, there's just not, I mean, to be a writer and you have you have, you have no, no, no writer has any guarantee that their work is going to be any good. I mean so amateur writers who, and I, I just work, I work against this all the time, who say, well, is this gonna be any good? Well, none of us know it. Nothing is any good until you keep going back and working on it, and working on it, and working on it. That's what makes it good. It doesn't start out good. I mean, there's a whole thinking about creativity, which is really mistaken, which is that people are creative or are not creative. No it's about cre. Creative work is about, is a kind of work. You go back to it every day, and it gives, the work is what gives it back to you.

Priscilla Long (20:31):

What gives the, the pleasure to have to shape something, a poem to shape, you know, a painting. And even the dancers, I, I'm just like, was especially amazed at the dancers because there's this idea, well, if you're a dancer you know, you, you're a dancer till you're 40, and then you're done, or 50, or whatever, whatever the age is. And, and so the older dancers Twila Tharp is such an example where, I mean, she's dancing, but she's also a choreographer, and she's working with her dancers. And so those are just very inspiring to me.

Larry (21:19):

You talked before about retirement, and this is a word that I personally I I, I don't know if we should be using the word retire anymore. No, I don't think

Priscilla Long (21:36):

We should. Yeah. No,

Larry (21:38):

It's more of a change.

Priscilla Long (21:39):

Let's dump that word, <laugh>.

Larry (21:42):

Yeah. You know, the question comes up, should we retire in the truest sense of the word? Sit back in a rocking chair, or go sit and fish in a stream, which is a great activity but not as the goal of your life

Priscilla Long (22:05):

Yeah. To, to re retire. I think who was it? Now I'm forgetting. But one of the first books about aging now I've forgotten her name, but in any case she said as if retiring to something like vegetating and Recreation <laugh> was anything anyone would want to do, it's like, why would would anyone want to do that? And, and it also, it, it really you know, one's neurons start dying. Let's face it, you know, if, if we're not learning, you know, the neurons in the hippocampus or hippo campi, if we're not learning, they're, they're dying. And, and so yeah, to reti to, I don't e I don't, I agree. I don't like the word at all. But to change occupations, to change, and I can see a wonderful period of not having to go to work and just, you know, thinking about getting up and here's the morning and having coffee and thinking about what you wanna do next.

Priscilla Long (23:16):

That sounds great to me. But then to do that for, for years or to go see what the next entertainment is, it's like, no, that is not the way to live. I mean, it's to connect to the community, to be of use to, to somebody else, to, to enter a new kind of learning. Like I'm learning banjo now. And I'm also trying to learn math, which is like <laugh>. But you know, I, I realize, no, this is not about having, it's nice to have more leisure. Sure, absolutely. But I think it's a great mistake, and it's a huge, you know, cultural error. I think that we, that this was pursued also, the segregation of ages is very questionable. Yeah. So, I mean, there's that organization, it used to be called Encore, which now has changed its name.

Priscilla Long (24:24):

I don't know if you know about that organization, but in any case, it was about having an encore career. You know, you have your, your job, your, your, and some jobs should be left. If, if it's financially possible, you know and some careers, you know, are just, you know, they should be left. I'm not saying they, you should stay at a job that is now causing stress and all that. But then there's such a thing as an encore career which is a new, a new work. And one of the models in here is a, you know, firefighter. I mean, he's 87, which I think is your age, right? <Laugh>. And he's a firefighter. He loves firefighting. He finds it very thrilling. And you know, he has a whole bunch of you know, connections and, and, you know, companions in the firefighting <laugh>, of course. And so, and, and he just loves it. He says, I, I just want to do this. As long as I can do this, I'm happy. So there are any number of different pursuits that one could undertake, but just to sit around, read the paper, you know, go. Yeah. No <laugh> bad idea.

Larry (25:46):

<Laugh>. Let, let, let's get into some examples. Arthur Rubenstein.

Priscilla Long (25:52):

Yeah. He, yeah. And he he worked until he dropped pretty much. Yeah. Arthur Rub, I mean, other, so I mean, Frank Lloyd Wright, I think Frank Lloyd Wright, I think was it the Guggenheim was his last building Yes. That he did when he was, I think 90. Yeah. And why should have he, should he have stopped? Why stop? You know, he loved his work, and each, each work was a new challenge. It's not when you're creating something and not just, you know, it's not factory production. I mean, each work is a new challenge. It has new challenges and new, new things that you have to work with. And, and speaking of of architects Frank Gary, some, I think he was on, I think it was him that was on N P R or something. And, and they said, well, you're, you know, 80 whatever he is, and so you're not planning to retire.

Priscilla Long (26:58):

And he goes, I wouldn't know what to do if I <laugh>. I have no idea what I would do if I, you know, I can't even go on vacation. So <laugh> and then less well known, like, I found out about Ellen Gray, who was a I believe she was Scottish, but she worked, she was an architect who worked in Europe. And so there, and just toward the, and, and I think she was very old when she sent her housekeeper. She made, she designed furniture. She designed a famous house in, in France, I think it was. And she was an architect and a designer, and she was very, she's now more and more well known after her death. But she, I think she was like extremely old. And she sent her housekeeper out to obtain a certain kind of wood, and I think she was over a hundred, but I couldn't be mistaken about that. But to, 'cause she was designing a, a, a, a coffee table type thing, a new, and, you know, fell into a coma and died by the time her housekeeper had returned. But she had worked up until that moment. And so these are models of how to live, I think, you know.

Larry (28:26):

And you mentioned in your book, James Mitchner published 19 books in his eighties. Yeah,

Priscilla Long (28:33):

<Laugh>. I know.

Larry (28:34):

And, and, well, one of my favorites because I know a bunch of seniors who are just computer adverse, oh, me, Cunningham. The choreographer began using computer technology to choreograph.

Priscilla Long (28:52):

Yeah. I mean, and he, he joined up. Yes. That's a great example that he actually joined up with. There was some computer gr design group in Canada, in some university, and he teamed up with them. And if you've seen, I think you can see it on YouTube, his there's a I don't know what it's called, but they attached lights to the dancers, and the dancers would dance, and then they blew these up. So these are like giant digital dancers, and then the real dancers are dancing with the dig. Oh, it's just beautiful. And yeah, he learned this whole computer technology at a very advanced age. Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and he, and, and, and doing that, he furthered his art, his incredible art. So yeah, I mean, and Louise Bourgeois, the sculpt, I mean, I'm not a visual artist, but I've gotten a lot from the visual arts.

Priscilla Long (30:01):

I love the visual arts and these visual artists and dancers, and, and Martha Graham, who got severe arthritis and her early seventies, and she couldn't move her hands. So it was very tragic for her. And so she like descended into alcoholism and stuff for three years, depression. Then she got out of it, I guess. She decided, well, I'm not gonna live this way. This is ridiculous. And she entered this period of extreme productivity in, in choreographing and running her, her her company and, and writing new, new dances until, you know, until she died in her nineties. So yeah, these are very inspiring examples of how to live.

Larry (30:58):

So let, let's get back to creativity and self-deprecating statements. Like, I'm too old to create something new. You can't talk, teach an old dog new tricks. How do these ageist tropes affect creativity?

Priscilla Long (31:17):

Oh, they kill it <laugh>. It's just,

Larry (31:19):

That's simple, straightforward. It's

Priscilla Long (31:21):

Just that simple. <Laugh>, I mean, there's a lot to creating something. I mean, there's a lot of you, you know, challenges in creating even one poem and even however experienced you are. And so to add that acid reign of self-deprecation, it does not work. And it's, it's based on the illusion that, you know there's some, there are these illusions that that people who are creative, they're, they are born, we're all born creative. So to even to say, oh, I'm not, I'm not a creative person. I mean, that's just not true. No, everyone is a creative person because it's not about the state of being, it's about work that you're doing. So you know, there's enough challenges. And it, if there weren't challenges, it wouldn't be any fun. So <laugh>, you know, that's good that there are challenges. Try writing a novel, you know, it's not easy.

Priscilla Long (32:28):

And there are lots there's a lot to learn. So to add on top of it, oh, I'm too old to do this. It simply does not work. It does not work. Do not do that. And part of it is we might be inclined to feel that way sometimes to feel discouraged. Well, we are, we all feel discouraged sometimes, you know? But it's about working anyway and working through the discouragement. And everyone knows, I mean, in the middle of a big project, like as writing a novel or writing a memoir there's this period of stalling. It's like, I can't figure out what to do next. Now, I don't know enough to, to know I haven't, you know, on and on. Well, don't add that's, that's universal. And so to say, oh, that's because I'm too old. No. Or that's because I'm not creative. No, that's no <laugh>.

Larry (33:29):

Yeah. We, we used to think that you, and, and you brought this up in your book, that the peak ages of creativity were between 33 and 43, but the examples that you used to disclaim that <laugh> were remarkable. Philip Glass.

Priscilla Long (33:51):

Yeah. Philip Glass <laugh>, yay. Fulfilled <laugh> and his memoir, writing without music. I mean, I so recommend that. It's one of the most interesting, fascinating things I've read. So but it's not only that it's true, there are all these counter examples, and this work is still going on. I mean, I'm sorry, I'm actually sorry to say. And I would like to like I mean, what it's based on is not creativity, but the commercial success. And for example, the first person who in the 1950s layman wrote this famous book age and Achievement, I think it was called. And it was, and he, you know, purported to report facts and about, you know, creativity. And it, his book was used to to like, it influenced policy such as required retirement and things like that. And it was based on, it sort of was based on how many times had this painting appeared in these art books?

Priscilla Long (35:12):

This was in the fifties. I mean, there were no women, there were no people of color. And so the, his database was biased. He was, he himself was not prejudiced against women. I mean, he defended, he said, no, here's this one and that one, I mean, there weren't, he couldn't make a very long list. But you know, there were women artists working, but they were not visible in the culture. They weren't very visible in the culture. But but also it, and this, this work goes on, I mean, like, there was some German sociologist who said, who talks about the most creative, you know, composers, blah, blah. And Keith or Dean Keith Simonton, who, who really oppose, who really objects to this work being used to say that an older person, a very old person, can't be highly productive and highly creative and highly original.

Priscilla Long (36:10):

So he's good. But he still uses the same technique, which is popularity, because they have to count something. I mean, they, they're sociologists. They can't look at you know, a painting and say, well, I think this is a great painting, so I'm gonna put it in the creativity pile. Instead, it is how many, you know, times it's played on the radio, how many times it's performed. How many times has this poem appeared in anthologies? This is not about creativity. And there's this fabulous book, which is very interesting, and let me see if I can dredge up the name of it. And it, it is, it has, this book has on through many different fields, has an example of a world famous achiever and another achiever who is just as good, but is totally unknown. And so why is that? Had to do with networking.

Priscilla Long (37:18):

It had to do with the one was very good at networking, and the other was terrible. And I'm, and we need to network. I mean, I'm not against networking, but it's not about creativity. It's about and how, how you gain visibility and influence. And so it's not about the peak ages of creativity. It's not about that. And so I should, I should read up that this lemme see. Yeah, it's Albert Laslow Barabasi, and it's called The Formula, the Universal Laws of Success. And with a name like that, I would've thought, well, I'm not gonna read that book. It couldn't be, but it was reviewed in the magazine science. So I thought, oh, okay. And it's a very interesting book. And it really counters the whole peak ages of creativity idea, even though he does not mention that in the book.

Priscilla Long (38:17):

But it, it, it, peak ages of creativity is about how visible in the culture a piece of work is, or a, a creator's work body of work is. That's what it's about. And so, so I think we can disregard <laugh>, the whole feel, <laugh>, and then not to mention the many, many counter examples, which they all agree. There are all these counter examples. So they all agree with that. But even, even the statistics about the Nobel Prize, you know first of all, there are counter examples like Barbara Barbara McClin, McClin McClin talks and and others, but also you can't, so you can't get the, the Nobel after you're dead. And there's such a thing as doing a work, but then it has to be cited. It has to be, you know, there's this gradual process of it being recognized. And so often then the person is dead before it's fully recognized. And so anyway,

Larry (39:37):

So in, in, in addition to being a creator you, you have to be socially active networking, active.

Priscilla Long (39:54):

Well, you don't, I mean, so for our own wellbeing, we need to connect with other people, you know, we know that. But it's, it's true. There's something to that. But it's also true that like, as I spoke to a senior living place, and they, some of those very active creators in that, that particular place that I spoke to said, there's just a great pleasure in, in making something. And then and I'm very influenced by Paula Enson, the Potter. And he, he wrote a, a very famous book that not when he was old making, making One's Way in, in Clay, I think it was called, and, and it was for potters, but it became very famous outside the world of, of pottery because it's about making art. And, and it was about everyone has their own art.

Priscilla Long (40:58):

And, and part of it was about what do you do with this, all these pots? And one suggested is put them out in the woods, <laugh>. So I mean, you know, if we're going to be a poet or going to be a novelist, yes, we should meet others and, and connect with others. But it's also true as older people, whatever we're doing, we need to connect with others. And also, one of our problem unique, really to older people is that your dear friends of your life keep dying on you. So therefore it is I, and, you know, and we grieve them. And part of our, as, as artists, as creators, part of our mission really is, is to elize, is to remember. I mean, that's partly, I mean, what we're given to do, you know, we don't have to do anything we don't want, but that's what partly what we're given to do. But it is also important to cross the generations and to connect with other people and to, you know, and to be of service if possible in some way, find ways to be of service. And so, so, you know, I mean, so I mean, I don't think you can necessarily start writing a novel at age, you know, 87 and plan to be a famous novelist, but you can start writing a novel and plan to have it be a good novel. And then after that you can plan to get it out somehow to share

Larry (42:41):

It. Well, I was, I was asking more on a personal level as someone who recently started podcasting and having guests like you on the podcast with a message that should be heard by more people.

Priscilla Long (42:59):

Yeah. Mm-hmm. <Affirmative>

Priscilla Long (43:01):

Yes. Then

Larry (43:02):

How to network it. Yes, the is out. Yeah. Not my me not my message, but the message of guests like yours. Yeah,

Priscilla Long (43:12):

Yeah. And, and, and your message also. Yeah. And so networking and, and yeah, on that level, yes, absolutely. And it's a constant process. You know, it's a constant effort to to, to connect to I don't know, I mean, use the social media, but there's a, I mean, we're absolutely bombarded with stuff. We're just bombarded. I mean, with blogs, with podcasts, with, you know, with emails with, with newsletters. We're just with TikTok, with <laugh>, on and on. And so we have, yes, we have to network and we have to, you know, and on my level, I mean, I send my work out all the time, and that's, you know, what I feel I need to do. And I also get like blizzards of rejections, <laugh>, even though I'm like pretty successful. And, but you know, you don't see the blizzards of rejection <laugh>.

Priscilla Long (44:27):

But so yeah, I think it's absolutely necessary, but it's also necessary to do it within a context that one feels comfortable with. I mean, you can't do everything, right. You can't be, you know, on TikTok, on LinkedIn, on, on Facebook, on <laugh>, on sub, you know, you can't just do everything you have to do. It's, I think it's a steady work every week. What have I done something, what have I done? Like, I think Joyce, I think it was Joyce Carol Oates who said, everything I that has come to me has in terms of hi her career, which is like pretty successful <laugh> is ha has come about because of some effort of my own. So yeah. And, and, and yeah, I think that that's what we have to do. If I'm talking about ongoing work that we're doing, we also have to get it out there in the world somehow.

Larry (45:37):

At, at the very end of your book, you use a phrase that's a good place to end the discussion. You used the phrase shape a new sort of old age. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. What did you mean by that?

Priscilla Long (45:55):

I think what we're doing right here I think that if with any luck <laugh>, there's ma are many people who are really working against ageism, but not only, and, and that's very important, and not only against ageism, but for a kind of life which anyone would envy to live. And I think it's an ongoing process. And, and, and part of it is that we're modeling how to do it to, for, for the, for younger people. And by the way, I should say that there's all this evidence that ageism against old people is really harmful to young people. And so part of the mission is to model, this is how it works. It doesn't work in some old way that that you might think. And I think that, you know, younger people who have older relatives who are dynamic and creative and productive and connected to their communities are at a great, a huge advantage.

Priscilla Long (47:13):

And, but anyway, we're, we're here for anyone who even who doesn't have such, you know, such mo and models, you know, are, are very, we know that models are very important whatever age you are models of, of cre, you know, creativity. Like when I was growing up as a girl on the eastern shore of Maryland, I did not really know that there were female artists, <laugh>. It's like, really? I, I mean, except I thought Juan Miro, the Spanish artist was a, was a woman that was very fortunate, <laugh>, but 'cause his name is spelled j o a n. So, but so and so it, and you know, the same color you are the same sex, the same gender, all that is all very important. Well, as old people, it's also very important to have models. And then, and then we become models for others in the way we live. If we live in such a way that, you know, this is a very satisfying way of living. This is not retiring <laugh> or not, you know, not oh, you know, and, and it's fine to like, if, if, if you love crossword puzzles, that's fine, but it's not enough <laugh>.

Larry (48:53):

I will applaud that. <Laugh>,

Priscilla Long (48:56):

It's just not enough. If you wanna go on a cruise, great. But just going on cruises, no <laugh>, what is your dream? What is your dream? What was your dream that you could go back to?

Larry (49:12):

Priscilla, your book? I'm gonna hold it up for people who want to see the cover dance with the Muse and old age inspiring read. I recommended it to listeners very highly. Where can they get a copy of their own?

Priscilla Long (49:32):

Anywhere you buy books, it's available anywhere you buy books. Yeah, I mean <laugh> or you buy your books. <Laugh>,

Larry (49:42):

Priscilla,

Priscilla Long (49:43):

It's on the big A of course, but it's also on you know, Barnes and Noble. It's also any independent bookstore either has it or can easily obtain it. So <laugh>,

Larry (49:53):

Thank you so much for coming on. This has been,

Priscilla Long (49:57):

Thank you for having,

Larry (49:58):

This has been enlightening and a lot of fun being with you. And please excuse the fact that my dog was running around. Oh, your was in the background. <Laugh>,

Priscilla Long (50:09):

Thank you so much for having me. It was great.

Larry (50:11):

It's been a pleasure. Thank you. Thanks.

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